#58 To Theory or Not to Theory: that is the (educational) question with Drs. Erick Hung and Jimmy Beck

August 27, 2025 | By Era Kryzhanovskaya

Audio

Video

Join us as we take a journey through the land of educational theory, conceptual frameworks, and how to apply both of them in classroom and clinical teaching as health professions educators. You will walk away with practical tips and tricks about the use of theory to enhance your teaching with Drs. Jimmy Beck and Erick Hung. 

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Meet our Guests:

Jimmy Beck MD is Associate Professor of Pediatrics, University of Washington School of Medicine. He is an attending in the division of pediatric hospital medicine and fellowship program director of the Pediatric Hospital Medicine Program at Seattle Children’s Hospital. He is a doctoral learner in the UCSF/University Medical Center Utrecht in the Health Profession Education Program where he is studying the positive influence of stress on learning.

Erick Hung MD is a Professor of Clinical Psychiatry at the University of California, San Francisco School of Medicine. At UCSF, he is the Associate Dean for Students in the medical school, and prior to that role, was the UCSF Psychiatry Residency Program Director. He is a member of the UCSF Academy of Medical Educators. His medical education research is in learner assessment and strategies to optimize the learning environment. His clinical work is in HIV Psychiatry and LGBTQ mental health.

Show Segments

• Intro, disclaimer, guest bio
• Guest one-liner/ Best piece of advice
• Definitions: What is educational theory?
• Can you be a great teacher without theory?
• Translating theory to practice: concrete examples
• Faculty development for busy clinicians
• Practical tips and low-barrier strategies
• Motivational theories and the “warm demander”
• Take home points
• Outro

Theory Pearls

Focus on frameworks, not jargon: they’re the approach or the bridge from theory to clinical (or classroom) teaching.

Start every session by learning names and pronouns—it builds trust and inclusion.

Translate theory into learner-friendly language: “We want you to be in the stretch zone” instead of saying “We want to be in the Zone of Proximal Development.”

Introduce faculty to theory in “basal-bolus” doses—tailor the depth to their needs and interests.

Don’t force theory—use it to explain and enhance, not overwhelm the learner or the educator.

Educational Theory Show Notes 

Definitions

Dr. Hung starts off the discussion by noting that educational theory is a way of trying to understand the world, people, and how the learning process works. It’s a fancy way of explaining how we know if what we’re doing is effective and education theory encourages us  to be rigorous, systematic, and comprehensive in how we teach Dr. Beck emphasizes awareness of the difference between teaching and learning. He proposes that theories can help us design experiences that truly foster learning. 

Theory Isn’t Essential to Start (teaching), But It Can Help You Go from “Great” to “Greater”

Dr. Hung notes that educational theory helps us understand how learners learn and how to construct positive environments that facilitate the learning process. Many excellent clinical teachers develop their skills without ever opening an education textbook. They often teach by emulating great role models, refining their own style through practice and reflection. However, educational theory offers frameworks to explain why certain teaching approaches are effective and provides tools to adapt to new contexts and learners. As Dr. Beck notes, “You can be great without theory. But with theory, you can become greater.” Theories, like those listed below, can help educators scaffold learning, foster motivation, and meet learners where they are developmentally.

Use Accessible Frameworks to Teach Smarter, Not Harder

Educational theory doesn’t need to be overwhelming or abstract. Many practical frameworks are grounded in solid theoretical work and can enhance clinical teaching without adding extra burden. For example, Cognitive Load Theory as introduced by John Sweller, reminds educators to reduce unnecessary information and simplify complex material so learners can focus on essential content (Sweller 1988; Young 2014).  Early in his teaching career, Dr. Hung applied this approach in whiteboard lectures—deliberately streamlining content, minimizing distractions, and highlighting the most essential elements on a whiteboard so learners could concentrate on the core concepts they needed to master.

The idea of Desirable Difficulties encourages instructors to introduce appropriately challenging tasks, such as having learners actively retrieve or apply knowledge, which enhances long-term retention (Bjork 2015, Bjork & Bjork, 2011). Dr. Beck shares this as an approach he uses with his learners, letting them even fail a little bit, as a way to add in some discomfort in the learning process which actually makes things stick better by introducing a little bit of friction–not giving them the answer right away, but having them look it up and apply it to the patients’ scenarios. 

Similarly, the Zone of Proximal Development suggests that optimal learning happens, when guided appropriately, just beyond a learner’s current independent ability–Dr. Hung describes this as “just enough stress” to capitalize on the learning process (Vygotsky 1978). Educators should also aim for learners to be in their “stretch zone,” a concept related to the Yerkes-Dodson Law, which shows that moderate stress—enough to be challenged but not overwhelmed—enhances performance (Yerkes & Dodson, 1908).

Sometimes motivating educators to work on their teaching skills at all is half the battle: if you can get people in the room for faculty development, you’re more than 50% of the way there. Build on that motivation and enthusiasm to help them reach their goal–they may be interested in the evidence for an approach or theory and others may just want 1-2 take home points on how to be a better teacher. Share theory based on the audience that you’re working with and what they need–perhaps even consider a needs assessment to clarify. 

From Theory to Practice: Applying and Understanding Theories and Frameworks for Enhanced Teaching 

Dr. Hung reminds us that theory is an important backdrop to our teaching; it gives us a great roadmap or conceptual framework to help  choose an instructional strategy. Essentially, a theory informs the framework of how to understand a learner, problem, or situation, and the framework is the roadmap that helps us choose the applicable teaching strategies. Theories are grouped as social learning theories (focus on social interactions in learning), cognitive theories (how we construct knowledge and put information together), and theories focused on the behavioral aspects (how we learn through specific behaviors). All these theories inform frameworks and why a particular approach would be useful in a particular educational scenario. 

Social cognitive theories examine how the learning environment and social interactions shape the way we absorb information.  Dr. Hung uses the example of Larry Gruppen’s framework for the learning environment to expand on this comparison with theories, frameworks, and teaching strategies/approaches in educational situations (Gruppen 2019).   While collaborating on a paper with Dr. Gruppen, Dr. Hung expanded this framework by integrating theories that emphasize two key domains: Material domain – the physical and virtual spaces where learning occurs.  Psychosocial domain – the social, emotional, and interpersonal factors that influence learning.  These domains together create an instructional roadmap that can guide educators. All good conceptual frameworks are informed by theories; social cognitive theories are applicable in health professions education especially to help us make sense of what and how we’re learning and teaching. The psychosocial domain—especially when broadened to include the organizational level—highlights how societal and institutional factors shape the learning environment. For example, a teacher working with a struggling learner might draw on this framework to address individual factors affecting that learner’s experience, or to consider organizational policies that influence learning conditions. This expanded learning environment framework, informed by theory, functions as a socioecological roadmap for educators (Theall 2025). 

Educators don’t need to memorize dense theory—they can use simplified, high-yield frameworks that translate directly into clinical teaching. Cognitive Load Theory can translate to easy tangible, practical next steps to help instructors reduce distractions and emphasize core learning points by chunking material and removing extraneous content (Sweller 1988). Desirable Difficulties can be incorporated by asking learners to pause and predict outcomes, retrieve prior knowledge, or work through challenging cases to reinforce memory and problem-solving (Bjork 2015, Bjork & Bjork, 2011).

The Zone of Proximal Development (ZPD) offers a blueprint for scaffolded teaching: meet learners where they are, then guide them just beyond their current capability (Vygotsky 1978). You don’t need to say or use the term ZPD at the bedside—saying “stretch zone” works just as well. Dr. Hung says, it best to tell your learners that you want them to be in the stretch zone: “Don’t want you to be overly safe or overly stressed. I want you to be in that zone of growth or stretch.” Bring the theory down a notch to translate it and make it real to see the magic of teaching and learning come alive. 

Relatedly, the Yerkes-Dodson Law highlights that moderate levels of stress or arousal can improve learning, but too much can be counterproductive—an important reminder when tailoring supervision and feedback (Yerkes & Dodson, 1908).

Dr. Beck also highlights the power of affective, in addition to the cognitive, theories. He mentions self-determination theory and communities of practices as theories that uplift that trust, safety, and belonging are all important to facilitating learning (Deci and Ryan 2000, Wegner and Snyder 2002). Dr. Hung brings us back to the foundational book How Learning Works, which is guided by theory (Ambrose 2023, 2nd Ed). The authors discuss teaching principles that are informed by theory (e.g. feedback and how we construct knowledge), but more importantly, in the second edition of the book, they highlighted the power of belonging, inclusivity, and identity by putting that as the first chapter. By creating this new chapter in the foundational learning book, this speaks to the importance of celebrating who learners are and that our team members come from different backgrounds; we need to acknowledge those differences to optimize the learning process. Easy wins from the book are things like doing authentic introductions by asking team members’ names, how to pronounce them, and what pronouns they prefer to understand who we are and who our team is and highlight that power of belonging as we get to know each others’ identities. Getting to know your learners makes you a more effective educator; even if you are pressed for time, taking a few minutes to do this can add a lot of value and help with the flow of teaching. 

The concept of Educational Alliance—similar to the therapeutic alliance in medicine—emphasizes shared goals, mutual trust, and bidirectional feedback in the learning relationship (Telio 2015). It underscores the importance of getting to know your learners and aligning on objectives, especially in longitudinal educational settings.

Motivation Matters—Be a “Warm Demander”

Applying motivational theories are also key to being an effective educator. One of the most powerful ways to motivate learners is to establish both psychological safety and high expectations. The Warm Demander framework, developed from studying the Native Alaskan K-12 education, emphasizes that great educators are both supportive and demanding. They build trust and relationships while pushing learners toward excellence. This idea provides a guide for combining empathy with rigor, ensuring that learners feel both cared for and challenged  (Kleinfeld 1975). The warm demander approach aligns with David Yeager’s Mentor Mindset, which emphasizes this duality—students thrive with consistent encouragement and high expectations—and combines high support with high challenge and helps learners grow in confidence and capability (Yeager 2024). Similarly, the concept of Radical Candor (which Dr. Hung says is basically Mentor Mindset) reminds educators that being direct doesn’t mean being harsh—it’s about balancing honesty with care to support professional identity formation and growth; radical candor encourages educators to “care personally and challenge directly,” a balance that builds rapport while fostering growth (Scott 2017). Learners thrive when they know their teacher believes in them—and expects a lot.

Challenge-support-vision framework developed for adults who went back to college after living a bit. As their teacher you want to not only provide support but also be challenging and give a vision of why you’re doing the things you’re doing. Articulate the why behind your actions as the supervisor or teacher–they are doing this not to be a jerk, but but they want me to be a great clinician–and this challenge-support-vision framework is referenced in David Yeager’s 10 to 25 book (Yeager 2024).

Overall, Dr. Hung recommends educators go out there and try to apply theories, try out different frameworks and approaches, and do not be afraid to make  mistakes. Get curious about learning about different approaches and how they work. If they have a mentor who is an educational theory “geek”, ask them what is informing their approach. Don’t be afraid to stretch yourself as there isn’t going to be one theory that’s going to fit all situations. Theories are only as good as they are the best fit for a particular problem they are trying to solve; there are so many different educational problems, so we’re going to have to try out and apply different theories. Just go out and do what you enjoy; pay attention and center the learner in the process while embracing a growth mindset (Dweck 2014). Start with one and try it out; Dr. Beck encourages us to focus on what really facilitates learning and not just focusing on teaching for the sake of teaching.  

Take home Points: 

Dr. Jimmy Beck encourages educators to embrace theory not as an academic hurdle, but as a helpful lens to understand and improve their teaching. He reassures that you don’t need to start with theory to be a great teacher—but exploring it can help you go from great to even greater. Dr. Erick Hung adds that using theory is like sharpening your tools: it gives language to what you’re already doing well and helps you be more intentional, especially when teaching in complex or emotionally charged settings like medicine. Both highlight that integrating even small pieces of theory can lead to big gains in clarity, confidence, and impact as an educator.

Links/Plugs: 

1. Lady Gaga’s tour featuring her latest album, Mayhem.
2. Nobody Wants This show on Netflix
3. 10 to 25: The Science of Motivating Young People: A Groundbreaking Approach to Leading the Next Generation–and Making your own Life Easier by David Yeager
4. Dr. Jimmy Beck is enrolled in the UCSF/Utrecht University Medical Center Doctoral Program in Health Professions Education

Goal

Listeners will consider the role that theory plays in clinical and classroom teaching practices

Learning objectives

After listening to this episode listeners will…

1. Describe the definition and role that theory can play in health professions education and instruction
2. Recognize moments where theory would be helpful in clinical, classroom, or asynchronous teaching or curriculum development 
3. Identify approaches for educators to integrate theory into their teaching/instructional activities

Disclosures

Drs. Hung and Beck report no relevant financial disclosures. The Curbsiders report no relevant financial disclosures. 

Citation

Kryzhanovskaya E, Beck J, Hung E, Cheng MKW, Heublein M . “#58 To Theory or Not to Theory. The Curbsiders Teach Podcast. https://thecurbsiders.com/teach. August 27, 2025.